Author Topic: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess  (Read 447434 times)

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Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #420 on: March 30, 2010, 16:55 »
1653 hrs - its raining downtown ... no one visible right now in the cam-zone.  Ivy was on the sign until just before the rain started, but can't find him now.

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #419 on: March 30, 2010, 16:51 »
This may sound like a silly question, TPC, but if mother mates with son, does this adversely affect the Peregrine gene pool.  ???

Depends on the genetic health of the individuals.  If they don't have problematic genes, then no, they are just reinforcing good genes.  If they do, it can.  They, like pretty much every other species, does try to avoid it however because its does narrow the pool somewhat.  The current theory related to cheetahs is that they became inbred (they are almost genetically identical) when a natural disaster of some sort (or sorts) about 10,000 years ago (end of the last ice age I believe) reduced the total world population down to less than 7 individual cheetahs, possibly even just one mom and her cubs.  So the species survived through brother-sister, child-parent pairings.  They survived but their fertility has been affected.  Given the number of peregrines out there, and the frequency with which child-parent or brother-sister pairings occur in conjunction with high first year mortality, the chances of severely damaging the overall gene pool is slim.  Damaging our little gene pool if an offspring were to be a dominant breeder would depend on what was in the bird's and his/her mate's genetic make-up.

When Trey and Madame nested together, they had fewer young, but they were perfectly healthy and it was only a couple of years.  It may be one of the reasons Trey chose Princess over Madame in 2004, "knew" (in the hardwired instinctive sense) that his genes would do better with an unrelated female. 

And for those of you who don't know or don't remember all the minutae of Ivy's background ... he tried to nest (unsuccessfully) with his sister Lucy back in 2007.  2005 - Ivy and Lucy hatched at the Radisson - westside nestbox!
2006 - Ivy went a roving, Lucy returned and held the West Winnipeg territory with a Brandon cousin. 
2007 - Ivy reappears and the Brandon cousin did not.  Ivy & Lucy had three eggs, none of which hatch. 
2008 - Lucy did not return but Ivy did, and Jules appeared.  They didn't nest but they did defend the territory. 
2009 - Ivy and Jules tried their hand (or talon) at nesting with pretty much the same results as in 2007.  Not unusual for young, first-time nesters.
2010 - Jules in West Winnipeg (last we saw her) and Ivy hanging out at the Radisson annoying (so far) his mother, Princess.

Offline Kinderchick

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #418 on: March 30, 2010, 16:12 »
This may sound like a silly question, TPC, but if mother mates with son, does this adversely affect the Peregrine gene pool.  ???

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #417 on: March 30, 2010, 16:07 »
Ivy (I assume) on the i in Radisson.....seems to be hanging on...

Actually, he sucks at hanging on ... I've never seen a bird get blown off the sign as often as he does, not even the chicks!! Its hilarious, makes me think that Princess will have a hard time taking him seriously as a mate if he can't stay on the tops of the letters.  Trey always manages it - but then his preferred spot was on the slash under the R, maybe the "old man" knows that one shouldn't sit on the rounded tops when there is a breeze and that's why he sits on the slash.  Age & cunning beats youth & beauty every time!

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #416 on: March 30, 2010, 16:04 »
Don't know how long Princess will wait I'm afraid.  If she knows Trey isn't coming back, she might not.  She might already be willing to let Ivy court her - he did take half his lunch to someone earlier today.  

Don't even know whether or not she will mate with Ivy who is her son.  Its happened before, Madame and Trey were paired together for a couple of years before Princess arrived and those chicks did fine.  One of them, Sherpa, looked to be "Ivy" in fact - he was back in the West Winnipeg territory for two years before he had an accident & collided with a fence.

Don't know if Jules will force Princess out of the territory if she wants to stay with Ivy.  Jules is pretty quiet, but she and Ivy did escort another female (I think) out of the West Winnipeg territory last year and she was pretty firm about her request for withdrawal!

Offline Kinderchick

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #415 on: March 30, 2010, 16:00 »
Scenarios .... keeping in mind that Trey arrived on March 31st in 2008 when Ivy pulled this stunt before.  Trey could turn up anytime in the next two weeks and it would still be in the normal return range for Manitoba.

If Princess accepts him, Jules will hopefully find another mate this year - there are usually birds flying through/by so not an impossibility.

If Princess doesn't accept him and manages to hold her territory until Trey or another male turns up, then Ivy would probably end up back out west with Jules.

If Ivy and Jules decide they want the downtown territory, they will have to force Princess out and hope Trey doesn't return.


Such a peaceful time is Spring ...
Wow! I leave town for a few days and all this drama occurs! Sounds a bit like a soap opera! ::) But at least TPC has positively identified Ivy in the downtown. Very interesting possible scenerios, TPC! I did manage to see Princess peering out from her garden nestledge late yesterday morning, as I drove past the Radisson. It was pretty exciting to see her in person... still waiting for Trey, though. :-\

 

Offline Pam

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #414 on: March 30, 2010, 15:58 »
Ivy (I assume) on the i in Radisson.....seems to be hanging on...

Offline Saoirse

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #413 on: March 30, 2010, 15:32 »
As a Phanatic I'd rather not find out.... :P   Hurry Up Trey!! 8)

I'll second both parts of that post, Ballywing!

Offline ballywing

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #412 on: March 30, 2010, 15:25 »
As a Phanatic I'd rather not find out.... :P   Hurry Up Trey!! 8)

Offline Saoirse

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #411 on: March 30, 2010, 15:03 »
Thanks for the history, Allikat. Speaking for myself only (not a Phanatic   :'( ), I wouldn't say that I'm especially worried (yet) -- concerned about Trey, of course, as I believe we all will be until we actually see him back here. I am interested, though, and curious about how long the biological imperative would allow Princess to wait before the need for her to mate and produce eggs would kick in.

Offline bccs

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #410 on: March 30, 2010, 14:38 »
Great research Alli, thanks for the info.
No need to be worried yet.

Offline allikat

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #409 on: March 30, 2010, 14:32 »
I know it's tough Phanatics but, 2 years ago (2008)......
Princess arrived in town on March 17.  
Ivy made an appearance on March 25th (I believe, would have to go back & check).
Trey returned on March 31st (wasn't confirmed until April 3rd that it was in fact Trey).

Hang in there Phanatics.....hang in there.    :D





Offline Saoirse

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #408 on: March 30, 2010, 14:27 »
Mother Hen, I'm so glad you asked that question . . . I've been wondering about that, too!  ???

Offline Mother Hen

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #407 on: March 30, 2010, 14:13 »
So just how long will Princess wait for her rockstar before the urge to ..........

Offline Mother Hen

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Re: Radisson - 2010 / Ivy & Princess
« Reply #406 on: March 30, 2010, 14:07 »
Tracy right now one is on the West Nest and one is flying high above the Radisson