News: Woodpeckers, Nuthatches & Chickadees

[Kinderchick]

Well said, carly & bcf!

[birdcamfan]

Yes, I agree with you. But I don't see the sacrifice of these 2 birds as any different than the sacrifice of millions of animals every day for human consumption. There's an alternative to that too. Until humans recognize all living beings as having a right to live, the alternatives won't be pursued by the majority of us so called "higher beings".

[carly]

My husband heard on the CBC news today that these 2 woodpeckers were shot. It's too bad. I guess they felt that they had run out of options.

 There is always another option if you really look for it and if you place equal value on all species - sadly
some' humans tend to think their value is more than that of their fellow inhabitants.  Two little tiny birds being shot for something materialistic vs something that is a wonder of nature - the birds themselves, what a pathetic species we have become, we deserve to become extinct.

[birdcamfan]

My husband heard on the CBC news today that these 2 woodpeckers were shot. It's too bad. I guess they felt that they had run out of options.

[Kinderchick]

That's a great idea, that someone is interested in building a few nestboxes, sami.

[sami]

We have someone interested in making some boxes. There is another pair in the vicinity but so far they haven't shown any interest in attacking the steeple. But the nest boxes would be a precaution, even though in all the years the church has been there this hasn't happened before (built in 1837). There aren't any carpenter ants - or other insects that have been found - the behaviour seems to be the result of trying to hollow out a nest area, not an attempt to find food.

[des]

The solution - nest boxes. If large nest boxes, similar to the bluebird ones you see along highways, are erected - one for each bird - are erected, the birds will leave the buildings alone. There were pictures of a row of nestboxes, each with a pileated looking out. So there may well not be any insects, since that's not what they're looking for - they're just trying to hollow out spaces for themselves to roost in at night. Guess what we will be doing now?
And for the record - we simply asked conservation for help - it was their decision to shoot.

So you are going to try nest boxes - and, I assume, get rid of the carpenter ants?

[The Peregrine Chick]

The solution - nest boxes. If large nest boxes, similar to the bluebird ones you see along highways, are erected - one for each bird - are erected, the birds will leave the buildings alone. There were pictures of a row of nestboxes, each with a pileated looking out. So there may well not be any insects, since that's not what they're looking for - they're just trying to hollow out spaces for themselves to roost in at night. Guess what we will be doing now?

The nestbox idea sounds neat - if St Peters does do something like that to be proactive in case birds come back, you will have to keep an eye on it for us Sami!  Heck, might even be a great idea for a webcam!

I hope your church manages to get a handle on the insect problem, the damage pileateds (heck all woodpeckers) can do is significant, and having been through it once, it wouldn't be fair for your church to have to go through it all again!  Don't need for it to be a no win situation for the church and congregation as well!

[sami]

Someone from the area sent us an article that originated (I think) with Texas Wild LIfe about woodpeckers, specifically pileated. They said there are three reasons the birds peck - forage (not the usual reason for what they do), mating, and roosting. Apparently they like to roost in large holes that they hollow out in trees. For some reason, even when there are plenty of suitable dead trees, they attack buildings - and keep on attacking because they are unable to hollow out the space they are trying for. Included was an article about a house that was attacked. The homeowners tried everything, but nothing worked. Painting or spraying the building with a variety of substances diden't work because the birds weren't tasting anything - they were just ripping off chunks of wood. They even got inside the house (more damage).

The solution - nest boxes. If large nest boxes, similar to the bluebird ones you see along highways, are erected - one for each bird - are erected, the birds will leave the buildings alone. There were pictures of a row of nestboxes, each with a pileated looking out. So there may well not be any insects, since that's not what they're looking for - they're just trying to hollow out spaces for themselves to roost in at night. Guess what we will be doing now?
And for the record - we simply asked conservation for help - it was their decision to shoot.

[Kinderchick]

... Basically, its was a no-win situation from the start for the woodpeckers... 

 

[The Peregrine Chick]

. The news report indicated that Manitoba Conservation suggested the only solution would be to shoot the birds. Too bad. But it doesn't sound as if there is anything else that can be done to preserve this historic site.

 If Manitoba Conservation thinks the only answer is to kill something..then they need to drop the 'conservation' from their name. 

It's a building...wood and materials..nothing of substance like an animal with a beating heart and a warm touch. No offense but memories are in the heart, the mind and the soul not enshrined in wood or brick or mortar.  Pretty sure the guy in the sandals was opposed to buildings like that and in fact I"m certain there's some lengthy discussion about people missing his whole point by thinking that a building or a spire is what matters in life.     

I agree with Carly.  I personally think it is horrble that they feel the  only answer is to kill the woodpeckers.

Who thought the only answer was to kill them?  Conservation or the Church Committee?  Conservation has no problem with the birds eating through the Church - that's what these birds do.  The Church wanted them away, but these birds are territorial.  Removing them would mean that they birds would be back faster than the folks from Conservation.  So what do you do, keep removing them, stressing them to death (literally in some cases, figuratively in all cases) and/or possibly physically injuring them in the process - then the bird(s) are subjected to additional stress of veterinary care but most probably euthanized.  So what is the ideal?  Quick regrettable death or repeated removals, stress and possible injury that could result in death?

From a purely technical standpoint, it gives the Church time to fix its insect problem so that when woodpeckers are looking for new territories later this year (they don't migrate), they hopefully won't find one at the church and everyone will be able to live in harmony.

Basically, its was a no-win situation from the start for the woodpeckers.  Sometimes its all about how we deal with a no-win situation.  And they are far from the only woodpeckers shot this year by joe public, they are just the only ones who made it into the news.

[birdcamfan]

Perhaps these birds actually saved the building. If there are carpenter ants there, the steeple may have weakened in an undetected way and fallen onto the roof of the church doing even greater damage. Kind of a sad story really.

[sami]

Interesting, since we had originally assumed that it was an insect problem, but were assured that there were none when the steeple was inspected. who do you believe? At this point, the steeple needs a lot of work, as it is in danger of being toppled in a high wind. Once it is down on the ground, a more thorough inspection should give the whole story.

[Moonstar]

. The news report indicated that Manitoba Conservation suggested the only solution would be to shoot the birds. Too bad. But it doesn't sound as if there is anything else that can be done to preserve this historic site.

 If Manitoba Conservation thinks the only answer is to kill something..then they need to drop the 'conservation' from their name. 

It's a building...wood and materials..nothing of substance like an animal with a beating heart and a warm touch. No offense but memories are in the heart, the mind and the soul not enshrined in wood or brick or mortar.  Pretty sure the guy in the sandals was opposed to buildings like that and in fact I"m certain there's some lengthy discussion about people missing his whole point by thinking that a building or a spire is what matters in life.     

I agree with Carly.  I personally think it is horrble that they feel the  only answer is to kill the woodpeckers.

[The Peregrine Chick]

For those of you wanting to read the piece in the paper ... http://c0002468.cdn2.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/SelkirkRecord0317.pdf

The Selkirk Record is a paper-only publication, no electronic version I'm afraid.  The story is on page 10.

Heard from my friends at Conservation, they said they had had an inquiry in February about the birds and what could be done.  The woodpeckers were attracted to a food source on the exterior of the building but that the danger of collapse was due to insect damage to the interior structure of the steeple/spire.  And while pileateds are not a species-at-risk, they are still a protected species but that Conservation can remove individuals if absolutely necessary and its not a permanent or long-term solution.  Apparently whomever is responsible for maintaining the church (individual, committee, whatever) has been informed that without treating the problem (the insects that are attracting the woodpeckers) they will be faced with the same problem in the future: birds will move into the now empty territory and they will find the same food source. 

On a personal note, most of the NROs I know and have worked with, hate the idea of having to remove an animal simply for doing what its designed to do.

[Kinderchick]

... It's kind of heart wrenching because as a bird lover, you can see the view of a couple of woodpeckers just trying to eat and nest. As a human, you can see the view of a congregation just trying to keep their building intact and their expenses down.  Is there a win-win solution here? ...

I agree with you, bcf, I, too, wish there could be a "win-win" solution.

[eagle63_1999]

My sick brain isn't working these days but to bad they couldn't somehow capture the birds and send them elsewhere.

[birdcamfan]

I guess while we enjoy watching webcams and appreciate the beauty of nature, not all interactions between humans and other species are positive. It's kind of heart wrenching because as a bird lover, you can see the view of a couple of woodpeckers just trying to eat and nest. As a human, you can see the view of a congregation just trying to keep their building intact and their expenses down.  Is there a win-win solution here? Not likely.

[jadoo]

...i'm not sure i entirely agree;  sounds horrible to go out and kill two birds with a gun, but, $26,000 damage?  Wow...pileated woodpeckers are not a threatened species, and we don't seem to have any problem with the deaths of all the birds being fed to the peregrines and their young...peregrines will defend their territories to the death, and we humans are also a recognized species, we do have some rights.  It's not like moving the church is a viable or reasonable option...(not trying to be offensive, not trying to bait anybody, just offering an opinion)...

[sami]

Seems to be a problem with "conservation" officers. They seem to be all too ready to shoot something. It certainly wasn't our intention to get the birds killed - we just wanted them to move on, and were looking for more solutions than we had been able to come up with on our own.

[carly]

. The news report indicated that Manitoba Conservation suggested the only solution would be to shoot the birds. Too bad. But it doesn't sound as if there is anything else that can be done to preserve this historic site.

 If Manitoba Conservation thinks the only answer is to kill something..then they need to drop the 'conservation' from their name. 

It's a building...wood and materials..nothing of substance like an animal with a beating heart and a warm touch. No offense but memories are in the heart, the mind and the soul not enshrined in wood or brick or mortar.  Pretty sure the guy in the sandals was opposed to buildings like that and in fact I"m certain there's some lengthy discussion about people missing his whole point by thinking that a building or a spire is what matters in life.     

[Kinderchick]

Heard about your church and the damage the Pileated Woodpeckers are doing to the spire on the CBC news while I was driving home from work today, sami. The news report indicated that Manitoba Conservation suggested the only solution would be to shoot the birds. Too bad. But it doesn't sound as if there is anything else that can be done to preserve this historic site.

[sami]

Pileated Woodpeckers can be most destructive, this one was found a few years back just off Osborne near Morley and did mager damage to the tree at the back lane. They are about the size of a big crow if that helps.

http://www.pbase.com/photosbydennis/image/56218295

Woody Woodpecker! And I really do believe they cause such damage just because they can! Not for lack of anywheres else to go - there are several acres of untouched bush behind the church for them to work on. Except that maybe they have and nobody has gone back there to check. Mourning doves and merlins are much nicer birds.

[photosbydennis]

Pileated Woodpeckers can be most destructive, this one was found a few years back just off Osborne near Morley and did mager damage to the tree at the back lane. They are about the size of a big crow if that helps.

http://www.pbase.com/photosbydennis/image/56218295

[Kinderchick]

...these particular birds just took a fancy to the church. I doubt it had anything to do with their religious affiliation!

LOL, Sami!

[birdcamfan]

In the nearby forest, it might be helpful to leave the dead trees standing. They are very attractive to woodpeckers of all types. Perhaps someone cleaned up the forest a little bit too well and removed an alternate source of food and shelter. We have left them up on our property at Winnipeg beach and the woodpeckers and flickers seem to like them. The added bonus as that we had Red Headed Woodpeckers last summer. We've never had them before. It's really too bad that they have attacked your church, it's hard for most churches to just keep the doors open never mind paying for costly repairs.

[The Peregrine Chick]

It wouldn't be a matter of just removing the spire - the front section  (entry way) and bell tower  would then have to be removed. As a historical site, there would be some problems with getting permission to change the church in that way. The site has been checked for insects, and apparently none were found.

There are all kinds of trees around - this is a wooded area - these particular birds just took a fancy to the church. I doubt it had anything to do with their religious affiliation!

I remember doing some research on pileated woodpeckers, they are very particular in their choices, probably because they live year-round in a relatively harsh environment, well usually live in a very harsh environment   

I'll be interested in hearing what eventually works Sami!

[sami]

It wouldn't be a matter of just removing the spire - the front section  (entry way) and bell tower  would then have to be removed. As a historical site, there would be some problems with getting permission to change the church in that way. The site has been checked for insects, and apparently none were found.

There are all kinds of trees around - this is a wooded area - these particular birds just took a fancy to the church. I doubt it had anything to do with their religious affiliation!

[des]

I thought the site had a few more ideas.
Why don't you just cut your losses and get rid of the spire?
The money could no doubt be put to better use. 

[The Peregrine Chick]

Thanks, Des. Unfortunately, noise did not deter the birds, even ringing the bells didn't scare them off. Because of the height of the spire, the amount of the damage wasn't recognized at first, and the morning after the first seven or eight holes were patched, three more , including one through a patch, appeared by noon.These were determined birds! The repair consists of taking off the top part of the spire (requiring a special crane because of the height), bringing it down to the ground to repair and replace the supports inside, cover the outside with metal and then with shingles. We are wondering if there might then be a new breed of woodpeckers - with crumpled beaks from trying to peck through the metal........

Pileated woodpeckers are non-migratory and very territorial.  They are boreal cavity nesters and their territories typically contain a number of cavities for them to use.  Some they have "dug" out for nesting, others for roosting, feeding, some for the young after fledging, some for bad weather, some for good, you get the idea.  Your spires may be one of the few things in "their" territory that they can make cavities in ....  Or they may be telling you you have wood-boring insects in your spires - that is their primary food source as I recall.  Its possible they are doing you a favour 

[sami]

Thanks, Des. Unfortunately, noise did not deter the birds, even ringing the bells didn't scare them off. Because of the height of the spire, the amount of the damage wasn't recognized at first, and the morning after the first seven or eight holes were patched, three more , including one through a patch, appeared by noon.These were determined birds! The repair consists of taking off the top part of the spire (requiring a special crane because of the height), bringing it down to the ground to repair and replace the supports inside, cover the outside with metal and then with shingles. We are wondering if there might then be a new breed of woodpeckers - with crumpled beaks from trying to peck through the metal........

[des]

Found this doing a quick google search.  No doubt other sites.  No doubt you've looked and passed on the info - but just a suggestion...
http://www.ag.purdue.edu/entm/wildlifehotline/pages/woodpeckers.aspx

[sami]

One would suspect bugs, but we had someone check, and no insects were found. Apparently it is sometimes part of the courtship ritual, or they were birds who were just destructive because they could be.

[birdcamfan]

I know that "piliateds" can dig giant holes in trees but never thought they would be so destructive to a man made structure. It makes you wonder what the attraction to that particular site is???

[Kinderchick]

Piliated woodpeckers are not exactly welcome sights to a few of us. A pair have done serious damage to the spire of our church (2x6s ripped down to 3/4"). As fast as holes weere replaced, they ripped through them, and even got inside and caused more damage.
We are looking at an estimated repair cost of $26,000. Not our favourite birds at the moment!

OMG! That is not good at all!

[sami]

Piliated woodpeckers are not exactly welcome sights to a few of us. A pair have done serious damage to the spire of our church (2x6s ripped down to 3/4"). As fast as holes weere replaced, they ripped through them, and even got inside and caused more damage.
We are looking at an estimated repair cost of $26,000. Not our favourite birds at the moment!

[birdcamfan]

Ran from Winnipeg Beach to Gimli today and saw the following along the highway (#9):
1 lone snow goose flying low and honking furiously
1 bald eagle
2 blue jays, these are the first I have seen out there this year
There were noticeably more birds songs than 2 weeks ago when I ran out there so spring is certainly in the air.
We usually see flickers out there at this time of year but none yet

Anyone wanting to see piliated woodpeckers, there has been 1 (maybe 2) hanging around the horse stables at Birds Hill Park all winter. My daughter and I were lucky to see one a couple of times this winter when we were out cross country skiing.