Author Topic: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?  (Read 25720 times)

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Offline RCF

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #55 on: May 25, 2013, 15:23 »
Here's another thought, perhaps this transmitter bird is one with a transmitter that failed and the drop off mechanism didn't work, I presume that all the transmitters used on these birds had one. A failed transmitter doesn't mean that something happened to the bird does it?

Interestingly, those who work with transmitters have found that there are characteristic transmission patterns that occur when a transmitter fails permanently, fails but not entirely (like on McDermot) and when a bird dies (like Nipper from West Winnipeg).  There is overlap where its hard to tell if its a permanent fail or if the bird has died and the transmitter goes off quickly so the only thing that is known is that up to a couple of months ago there were three bird surviving with transmitters.  Remember mortality for first year birds is 50-70% so statistically most of the chicks hatched/hacked last year should have died - we had 12 chicks last year so statistically 8.4 of our chicks are dead and 3.6 have survived and we know of two = Juliet & McDermot.  And we know that Juliet survived and was last recorded in Regina, and that the Neepawa female has made it past the first year mark so her mortality risk has dropped dramatically and finally that McDermot's transmitter has been sporadic right from the start and the data seems to indicate that he was still alive at last report.
But there is always space for more surprises ... particularly this year!!  ::) ;D

So by this reasoning Rain and Rosser (2011) are both dead because one transmitter was reported to be off line  after only a few days into migration and the other transmitter was reported off line the next spring on returning migration? I under stood you to say that because the transmitter had failed that it did not necessarily mean the bird was dead.
http://www.species-at-risk.mb.ca/projects/pfrp/forum/programs/index.php?PHPSESSID=680d5c271ecf131d6ef79dc0f92c9435&topic=2830.msg81363#msg81363

Here's another link to reports of Rain and Rossers offline transmitters.

http://www.species-at-risk.mb.ca/projects/pfrp/forum/programs/index.php/topic,2952.msg82300.html#msg82300

Offline Rose

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #54 on: May 25, 2013, 15:02 »
Here's another thought, perhaps this transmitter bird is one with a transmitter that failed and the drop off mechanism didn't work, I presume that all the transmitters used on these birds had one. A failed transmitter doesn't mean that something happened to the bird does it?

Interestingly, those who work with transmitters have found that there are characteristic transmission patterns that occur when a transmitter fails permanently, fails but not entirely (like on McDermot) and when a bird dies (like Nipper from West Winnipeg).  There is overlap where its hard to tell if its a permanent fail or if the bird has died and the transmitter goes off quickly so the only thing that is known is that up to a couple of months ago there were three bird surviving with transmitters.  Remember mortality for first year birds is 50-70% so statistically most of the chicks hatched/hacked last year should have died - we had 12 chicks last year so statistically 8.4 of our chicks are dead and 3.6 have survived and we know of two = Juliet & McDermot.  And we know that Juliet survived and was last recorded in Regina, and that the Neepawa female has made it past the first year mark so her mortality risk has dropped dramatically and finally that McDermot's transmitter has been sporadic right from the start and the data seems to indicate that he was still alive at last report.

But there is always space for more surprises ... particularly this year!!  ::) ;D

So by this reasoning Rain and Rosser (2011) are both dead because one transmitter was reported to be off line  after only a few days into migration and the other transmitter was reported off line the next spring on returning migration? I under stood you to say that because the transmitter had failed that it did not necessarily mean the bird was dead.

http://www.species-at-risk.mb.ca/projects/pfrp/forum/programs/index.php?PHPSESSID=680d5c271ecf131d6ef79dc0f92c9435&topic=2830.msg81363#msg81363

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #53 on: May 25, 2013, 14:05 »
Here's another thought, perhaps this transmitter bird is one with a transmitter that failed and the drop off mechanism didn't work, I presume that all the transmitters used on these birds had one. A failed transmitter doesn't mean that something happened to the bird does it?

Interestingly, those who work with transmitters have found that there are characteristic transmission patterns that occur when a transmitter fails permanently, fails but not entirely (like on McDermot) and when a bird dies (like Nipper from West Winnipeg).  There is overlap where its hard to tell if its a permanent fail or if the bird has died and the transmitter goes off quickly so the only thing that is known is that up to a couple of months ago there were three bird surviving with transmitters.  Remember mortality for first year birds is 50-70% so statistically most of the chicks hatched/hacked last year should have died - we had 12 chicks last year so statistically 8.4 of our chicks are dead and 3.6 have survived and we know of two = Juliet & McDermot.  And we know that Juliet survived and was last recorded in Regina, and that the Neepawa female has made it past the first year mark so her mortality risk has dropped dramatically and finally that McDermot's transmitter has been sporadic right from the start and the data seems to indicate that he was still alive at last report.

But there is always space for more surprises ... particularly this year!!  ::) ;D

Offline Rose

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #52 on: May 25, 2013, 12:21 »
Here's another thought, perhaps this transmitter bird is one with a transmitter that failed and the drop off mechanism didn't work, I presume that all the transmitters used on these birds had one. A failed transmitter doesn't mean that something happened to the bird does it?

Offline RCF

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #51 on: May 25, 2013, 12:11 »
The only way I could get a band colour is if the bird sits on the very edge of the cubby hole and at the right angle, the chances are slim.  You need someone with a much bigger lens than I have.......you know like Dennis's Wowser or for me to be a lot closer.
 ¿

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #50 on: May 25, 2013, 11:53 »
Who were the first pair out there? Who were the pair Dennis and Tracy saw when they were out there a week ago or so?

The pair we saw, one was banded, one was not.  I think the only photo we have of the banded bird is one flying overhead and I think that was the female so its possible that because of the angle we might have been able to see the antennae.  But I had binocs on them and didn't see anything, so I would have to confer with Dennis and see if he has any less than wonderful photos that might show more ...

Last year there was a pair on-site when the ravens were still around and then another pair later in the year ...

Not only do we need to get a look at the band colours and which leg but also if they even have legbands ...  :)

It would seem that because the bird in RCF's photo shows so much brown that it should be a young (last year's hatch) but our birds are smaller and they seem to cycle into adult plumage quickly ... Jules however, stayed brown for a couple of years longer than we expected (remember we can still only estimate her age) - now she is bigger than most/all of our Manitoba-born females ... might be that the Neepawa bird who is older than Juliet and McDermot might still be showing juvenile brown in the feathers on her back and wings.  Will be interesting to find out what the satellite transmitter tells us and what RCF manages to photograph or see!

Offline Rose

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #49 on: May 25, 2013, 09:57 »
What an interesting time at this site! So many questions and not likely to get too many answers. Who were the first pair out there? Who were the pair Dennis and Tracy saw when they were out there a week ago or so? Who were the pair in the cubby hole and did one of them have a transmitter(on some of the pics it looks like one of them did)? Yesterday for sure there is a falcon with a transmitter and another falcon. Is this a new pair or is just the transmitter bird new to the site? And last but not least what happened to the other bird/birds? We can all have a happy summer trying to solve the riddles. :)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2013, 10:00 by Rose »

Offline RCF

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #48 on: May 25, 2013, 08:15 »


Actually the roof nestbox is close to the edge of the roof its just hard to see and it's at about the same height as the catwalk on the towers. 


When we were out there yesterday, I made note of the the height difference between the catwalk and the roof the nestbox is on.  The catwalk is 30 to 40 feet higher than the building roof.  I know you are not out there much and sometimes it's difficult to remember all the details.  We have sometimes thought that the lower catwalks are very close to the same height, but when we get out there and we see they are quite a bit higher.  :)

Offline Kinderchick

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #47 on: May 24, 2013, 20:30 »
I was just flabbergasted when I got home today and looked at my photos I took at the tower. The one bird has a transmitter on it’s back and there was no mistaking that!   :o ...
Holy smoke-a-roonies, RCF! :o That is amazing! What great photos you take AND what a great detective you are! Can hardly wait to hear more! :D

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #46 on: May 24, 2013, 19:56 »
Waiting impatiently for the transmitter data!! 

Couldn't agree more!!  ;)

Offline RCF

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #45 on: May 24, 2013, 19:54 »
On this Wednesday past I posted photos of the birds in the hole in the wall and today I checked my other photos from then and it looked like an aerial on a couple of pics.  So if Juliet was south of Regina on Wednesday, I kind of doubt it would be her. Waiting impatiently for the transmitter data!!

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2013, 19:45 »
HOLY CATS RCF!!!

making a call .... brb ....

Okay, I'm back ... could be one of three birds who are known to still be alive with transmitters - two of them are females, one is male.  The male is McDermot and his transmitter is wickedly sporadic in its transmissions (always has been) - but if RCF's right, it won't be him much as we might like to think of him visiting his cousins.  The first of the females is Juliet from West Winnipeg but at last report (Wed) she was south of Regina - she's been in Minnesota then she winged across the corner of Manitoba and up to Saskatoon, then down to Regina then she moved out of the city and that was her last report.  The second female is a captive-bred bird released in 2011 in Neepawa - she's been very fond of the Minot area the last couple of years so perhaps she has come back to western Manitoba.  Problem is that her transmitter gave up the ghost just a little while ago so we can't be sure from the satellite data.  These are the three birds that are most likely the bird visiting the Tower site ... won't get the next satellite download until Sunday/Monday and I'll post what I find out.

So, RCF, we need to know a legband colour and on which leg ... that would help us to narrow down the possibilities perhaps to even the point of being able to accurately guess who your transmittered bird is ....

Exciting days in Brandon!  ;D


Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #43 on: May 24, 2013, 19:01 »
HOLY CATS RCF!!!

making a call .... brb ....

Offline Rose

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #42 on: May 24, 2013, 18:45 »
well,  well, well imagine what you can find on a day out at the river, now were did this one come from?  :)

Offline RCF

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Re: Tower Nest - 2013 / ? & ?
« Reply #41 on: May 24, 2013, 18:38 »
I was just flabbergasted when I got home today and looked at my photos I took at the tower. The one bird has a transmitter on it’s back and there was no mistaking that!   :o   I checked the photos I took on Wednesday and I could see the transmitter aerial in a few of them.  I think it is the female that has the transmitter since they were both on different towers and we could see one with the transmitter was bigger.

Female



Male