Author Topic: QC / Montréal - l'Université de Montréal - 2009-19  (Read 48722 times)

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Offline carly

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #98 on: May 10, 2010, 19:31 »
Yes,  thank you, bev, for posting the biologist's insights... Is Polly still at this site with Roger & Spirit?  ???

Yes she is still there.

Offline Kinderchick

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #97 on: May 10, 2010, 19:16 »
Yes,  thank you, bev, for posting the biologist's insights... Is Polly still at this site with Roger & Spirit?  ???

Offline Alison

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #96 on: May 10, 2010, 19:09 »
Thank you for passing on the information from the biologist, Bev!

I wonder if we will ever know what really happened to the third chick.







Offline bev.

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #95 on: May 10, 2010, 14:23 »
I wrote to biologists at my site and this is the reply form one and he said I could post it. I appraised them of all that had happened thus far ,from Pollys injury and staying with adults till now.

Hi, Bev, et al.,

Every Peregrine webcam will show us something interesting.  Occasionally the webcam events are extremely revealing about the plasticity and the limitations of the falcons' behavior.  

I hope somebody keeps careful track of what transpires and writes up the events from the Montreal nest.  This appears to be a well-documented, well-observed event.

From Bev's descriptions only (I've not been watching the website), I can offer a few comments.  

I've watched as a male of a pair of captive breeding Merlins temporarily 'stole' some of the brood from under the female and brooded them a few cm away from the female.  The drive to incubate or brood can be very strong!

With their beaks, raptors can pick up and carry tiny nestlings without damaging them.  

Sometimes in (captive) circumstances in which the female apparently was confused, she may pick up and carry a nestling, then brood it, then pick it up again...  In one case I've watched, everything was fine a hour later, and the nestling eventually was reared to fledging; in another case, an hour later the nestling was found dead, cached in a corner of the nest box, and the female was incubating the remaining (infertile) eggs.

In the literature there are a small number of cases of "threesomes" at falcon eyries, usually with a yearling (usually female) helping the adult breeding pair (apparently not always their own offspring of the previous year).  
Observations have not clearly shown how these unusual situations arise.  

Even when there were many high quality territories vacant, yearling Peregrines rarely took up those territories and tried to nest as one year olds.  
Presumably the few that tried were especially high quality birds.  The 'extra'
bird at the Montreal nest probably is not an exceptionally high quality, well nourished yearling, and so she may not be in 'full breeding condition'.  

In captivity there have been a few observations in which some much older nestlings have been seen to feed much younger ones; in large nestlings or fledglings there appears to be a powerful instinctual urge to feed begging young falcons (but those were not tiny, recently hatched nestlings).  As the spring progresses, perhaps Polly will become more 'maternal' and may properly
take on some parenting roles.  

In Montreal, if the fledgling of the previous year had a leg injury, it is understandable that the parents might have cared for it as a dependent youngster into the fall and winter, and that it did not learn how to kill quarry and disperse when it normally would have.  And if the adults remained on territory through the winter, it is understandable that the juvenile might become an accepted part of the "pair" and still be there in the spring.  But, while we might like her to, we cannot expect the young bird to do the appropriate parenting behaviors.  It may work out.  Or it may not.  I hope somebody watches closely and tells us what eventually happens.

Wayne
« Last Edit: January 13, 2011, 22:13 by The Peregrine Chick »

Offline Alison

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #94 on: May 09, 2010, 16:47 »
I don't even know what to say about the events here. I have never heard of this happening before. In the few cases I am aware of where a juvie has remained in the area of the nest through the first year, particularly in Chicago and Brighton, the juvie assisted in the feeding of the new chicks. What I don't know for sure is whether these juvies were male or female.

I can only hope that the missing chick is okay.









Offline carly

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #93 on: May 09, 2010, 15:15 »
Tragic news here tonight.  Polly has stolen one of the babies and they thiink she has consumed it.  Eve has posted on her blog tonight that she went to search for it thinking perhaps it had fallen and was somehow still alive.
My god, what will happen now.  Will she go after the other two?!
Oh my goodness, this is a tragedy!  :'( Is Polly not able to hunt for food herself?! ???

Yes she can apparently now hunt for herself.  She's not taking her parents ignoring her for new silblings well though it seems.

Offline Kinderchick

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #92 on: May 09, 2010, 14:52 »
Tragic news here tonight.  Polly has stolen one of the babies and they thiink she has consumed it.  Eve has posted on her blog tonight that she went to search for it thinking perhaps it had fallen and was somehow still alive.
My god, what will happen now.  Will she go after the other two?!
Oh my goodness, this is a tragedy!  :'( Is Polly not able to hunt for food herself?! ???

Offline Elaine L

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #91 on: May 09, 2010, 10:53 »
I just got on my computer after being busy all weekend with my upcoming move, and I am so upset to read this.  The last time I looked on Friday afternoon, everything seemed so serene and peaceful, and now this.  This is just awful.  Eve has not posted anything further about the situation since Polly took the chick. 

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #90 on: May 09, 2010, 02:07 »
SGB got some good shots of a feeding.  Spirit is now keeping the prey with her in the nestbox instead of taking it out.  Polly was in earlier terrorizing her and she seems nervous now, she lost her balance and fell on one of the babies but it looks okay.  Photos here:

http://www.peregrinefalcon-bcaw.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=480&p=59146#p59146

Keep in mind that the chicks have had their parents "on" them and while they look fragile, they really are pretty tough, even at an early age ... the chick is probably just fine.

Offline bev.

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #89 on: May 08, 2010, 19:45 »
I am wondering if she took it to eat or to raise. I just cannot get my head around her eating it.

I have a message into Gord and Helen.

Offline carly

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #88 on: May 08, 2010, 19:06 »
SGB got some good shots of a feeding.  Spirit is now keeping the prey with her in the nestbox instead of taking it out.  Polly was in earlier terrorizing her and she seems nervous now, she lost her balance and fell on one of the babies but it looks okay.  Photos here:

http://www.peregrinefalcon-bcaw.net/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=480&p=59146#p59146


« Last Edit: May 09, 2010, 02:06 by The Peregrine Chick »

Offline carly

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #87 on: May 08, 2010, 16:54 »
Eve has posted on BCAW the following:

Yes it was indeed very devastating to see Polly steal a chick yesterday... From what I saw she flew to the second nest with it - possibly to eat it - then Roger chased her away - she flew away with the baby then came back with nothing. She was on the tower after and the parents were not even angry with her...!!!

She also included a link to her site of the video with Polly stealing the chick.  I can't watch it but go to her site if you want to see it.

Offline carly

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #86 on: May 08, 2010, 15:22 »
Yes TPC, Eve has said she has seen Polly stealing food from her parents even though she is now capable of hunting for herself.

Offline The Peregrine Chick

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #85 on: May 08, 2010, 13:59 »
Having a helper isn't to my knowledge a common occurrence so can't say what commonly, or rather not uncommonly happens in these situations.  Carly reminded me that Polly had a foot injury last year and didn't migrate after it resolved itself.  I do know that peregrines don't practice siblicide or infanticide but I can't say if Polly "knows" that this year's chicks are younger siblings (I would doubt it) and these aren't her chicks and she's very young so I don't know if she has any hormonal urges to protect chicks or what happens if she has hormonal urges and their not her chicks.

Sorry, not being much help so far ...

As to whether or not Roger and Spirit will drive her off if she goes after another chick, I can't even guess.  Their protective instincts didn't compell them to drive her out of their territory before, not sure if they will now.  It has taken a few years for Hope & Doorly to nest successfully in Topeka, Kansas because he kept breaking the eggs (as far as I know, no one knows if the broken eggs were viable). 

I do have one question and that is if her foot injury has had an effect on her behaviour - by that I mean, is she perhaps learned to be more opportunistic about food (get it when and where she can) because of her injury.  If that were the case, she could (I suppose) view the chicks could be an opportunity for food since they aren't hers and she's not a mated bird.

But all of that is purely speculation, just more questions we may or may not ever have an answer for.  It will be interesting to see what Polly, Roger and Spirit do now ...

Offline carly

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Re: U of Montreal - 2010 / Roger & Spirit
« Reply #84 on: May 08, 2010, 12:57 »
Will Roger and/or Spirit (assuming they are aware of what Polly did) drive her away from the nest now? I'd be afraid that if she's taken one of the chicks, she'll just go after the others.

I honestly don't know what will happen or what is going on out there right now.  They seem to feel that it's the males fault for not driving her out and are excusing Polly as just doing what is natural and perhaps that is the case? 

We've never seen a juvenile stay on after dispersal like this - perhaps this is one of the reasons the parents chase them off when they try to come back.  Maybe they know they are a danger to their new offspring...I'd be interested in TPC's commentary on this.