Author Topic: NY / Rochester - 2008-15  (Read 52442 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline carly

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,399
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #39 on: March 20, 2009, 09:22 »
She could yes Maggie but I'm not sure in this case because he's possibly been gone for over a week - our guys here keep mating until the last egg is laid and TPC did say it was an ongoing process so not sure if some 'time off' in between would affect the process.  I could guess but honestly...I have no clue. 

<TPC Help!!>

I've been told that in territorial disputes when a new male takes over after mating had already occured..then some eyases would be the old tiercel's and some the new.  However that cutover usually happens quite fast as the female will quickly accept the new male.  In this case...she may not find a new male for several more weeks and TPC did say that this nest box situation would be as stressful for her as a territorial dispute so that will also affect any potential eggs as well, they might not be viable.

« Last Edit: March 20, 2009, 09:34 by carly »

Offline maggieblue

  • Past Member
  • Fledgling
  • ****
  • Posts: 892
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #38 on: March 20, 2009, 09:02 »
So sad to hear about the death of TC.   :'( 
As he and Mariah had mated is there any chance at all that Mariah could have his offspring? With support of a new male?

Offline carly

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,399
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #37 on: March 20, 2009, 06:53 »
Thanks Alison, I just found out and emailed Frank - he will be devestated as we all are here  :'( :'(

Offline Alison

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,402
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #36 on: March 20, 2009, 04:47 »
There is more very sad news from Rochester tonight. From a new update on Imprints:

"Unfortunately, we also have some sad news to report. Tybropa-Cree, the tiercel that we reported about last week who was observed mating with Mariah, was found deceased by the side of a busy highway on Tuesday, the 17th. He has been positively identified via his black ID band number, 15/V. Everyone here at the Rochester Falconcam was hoping that this new male would prove to be an able mate to Mariah and a provider for a family. It’s distressing to learn that he has fallen victim to human activity, however unintentioned.:

http://rfalconcam.com/imprints/

Tybropa-Cree had been in Rochester for such a short time. Born on a bridge in Quebec, he and his three siblings had been transferred to Toronto to be raised in a hack box, so that they would have a better chance of survival than they would trying to fledge from the bridge. He was such a handsome little tiercel, and only two years old.  :'(

 

Offline allikat

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,385
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2009, 22:01 »
Thanks TPC!!!

As I posted, sometimes the human emotions are hard to control and I just want to run up there and rip down the netting myself!!!  I have faith in Mariah's ability and intelligence to find another nestsite suitable for her and her mate to raise their chicks!!!   ;D

Offline The Peregrine Chick

  • Administrator
  • Old Bird
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,630
    • Peregrine Falcon Recovery Project (Manitoba)
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2009, 21:54 »
TPC, I know you mentioned that the netting is there to protect the building, but come on!!!  Isn't there anyone there that can see what's going on and it's possible that they just might lose a peregrine to this netting? 
I just wish someone would just make the decision and take the netting off.  If Mariah decides to nest somewhere else, hope is more like it, then great!!!  However, if she and her mate are trying to get access to this "blocked" nest site, can someone involved in the peregrine recovery project interveen?

As I understand it, the netting is there to specifically stop the peregrines as the Kodak Tower is slated to have work done it and they did provide nestboxes last year to get her/them use to changes in their territory.  There seems to be some question about the timeline on the work, and if you have read the comments that accompany the slideshow there seems to be some hard feelings towards the Kodak company in Rochester, but I'm afraid I don't know anything about that ...

As for the Rochester Project involvement, they were probably involved in putting up the additional nestboxes ... and recovery management is filled with the need to work with building managers and owners so chances are they doing the best they can in the situation.  Since the pair are well-known, and much beloved, I'm pretty sure that we will hear more about this as time goes by ... and Mariah & her beau have probably visited the other boxes but its a waiting game at this point.  They will probably settle soon and get down to the important "stuff" but it will be hard to wait ...

Offline allikat

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,385
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2009, 21:52 »
 :-[
Sorry, sometimes the human emotions overule nature's way.

It's just so hard to see that the Peregrine's instinct is blocked off by humans even though we are trying to aid in their recovery!!!

Offline allikat

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 3,385
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2009, 20:28 »
I really don't even know why I clicked on the link  :'(

Of course, I looked at every picture with my hand covering my mouth in total shock and in complete worry that Mariah will just decide to make a final attempt at the netting  :o

TPC, I know you mentioned that the netting is there to protect the building, but come on!!!  Isn't there anyone there that can see what's going on and it's possible that they just might lose a peregrine to this netting? 
I just wish someone would just make the decision and take the netting off.  If Mariah decides to nest somewhere else, hope is more like it, then great!!!  However, if she and her mate are trying to get access to this "blocked" nest site, can someone involved in the peregrine recovery project interveen?




Offline Liz

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,330
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2009, 19:28 »
We are way too early in the season, even for Rochester, to write Kaver off yet.  The winter has been cold, give the guy a chance to get back.  And even if Mariah gets "romantic" with the new male, doesn't mean she'll stay with him if Kaver arrives back later - females have abandonned their eggs for old mates.

I have a biology question -- do mature Peregrines generally conceive on the first attempt? 

And we're probably most of us not thrilled with the abandonment thing, even if we do want our favourite pairs together.  Hmm, science meets the heart!  How on earth do you do it?! 

Offline The Peregrine Chick

  • Administrator
  • Old Bird
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,630
    • Peregrine Falcon Recovery Project (Manitoba)
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2009, 11:17 »
That netting makes me queezy as well, I think your idea of plywood sheets is a good one.  I think the fact Mariah can see her old ledge means she won't give up for awhile, let's hope she doesn't get tangled in the nets.

I should say that I have no idea how they would anchor the sheets so they don't become airborne which is not something they have to worry about with the netting ...

Offline carly

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,399
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2009, 07:02 »
Thank you Tracy, that does explain things.  From what I remember they actually physically relocated her nestbox to one of the other locations and put up 1 or 2 other ones to give them a choice.  She is aware of the boxes they say as she was around in the Fall when all this work was going on but she has not gone near them.  She keeps hanging out on the Kodak and reports say she even mated with TC there. 

I know we've had cases here they tell me where they've had to move boxes but not with a peregrine who had nested in the same spot for so long - Mariah has been at Kodak for 11 years so it seems like uncharted territory but they worked with experienced biologists and seem to have done alot of planning - no doubt they know what they are doing but Mariah is a woman with a mind of her own. 

That netting makes me queezy as well, I think your idea of plywood sheets is a good one.  I think the fact Mariah can see her old ledge means she won't give up for awhile, let's hope she doesn't get tangled in the nets.

Offline The Peregrine Chick

  • Administrator
  • Old Bird
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,630
    • Peregrine Falcon Recovery Project (Manitoba)
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2009, 00:37 »
Had a look at the slideshow, and as a project manager, my concern is the netting.  It looks like pigeon exclusion netting, which is really the only way to keep pigeons off a building, particularly older buildings with their ornate architecture.  And pigeon droppings are brutal on stone/brick, corrosive in fact, not to mention the health problems that can arise.  For peregrines, I would have chosen something else, perhaps plywood sheets on an angle so she wouldn't have enough room to nest without the potential for her getting caught in the netting.  If she should get caught, it is hoped that a) someone notices quickly and b) access to the site is available, which I assume is so since she has nested there before.  And it wouldn't just be her, both birds could be caught. 

Now, before y'all panic folks, peregrines are predators and predators, because they have to rely on their ability to catch things in order to survive, take fewer risks than say a prey species.  Birds in particular, and raptors for sure, are very aware of how close they can get to things and when, without injuring themselves.  If you watch that slideshow again, Mariah is actually a very savvy and adept little flyer, it looked more nerve-wracking to us than it probably was for her.  But that doesn't mean she's safe, a gust of wind or a moment of inattention and anything can happen, just means that she's being careful and has the skill to keep herself out of trouble under normal conditions.

Help any?

Offline The Peregrine Chick

  • Administrator
  • Old Bird
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,630
    • Peregrine Falcon Recovery Project (Manitoba)
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2009, 00:23 »
Tracy, Do you think she would eventually give up and go to one of the new nest boxes or her old box or will this stress jeapardize her egg production/laying?  Also, since the Tiercel is usually the one who choses the box - will he view her wanting to be at Kodak with no access to a box as a rejection of himself?  Or will he follow where she leads? 

In the wild it is not unusual for a "natural" (ie: cliff-face) peregrine territory to contain more than one potential nestsite - even in urban sites pairs have been known to move around a bit if there are suitable sites.  The Radisson has two (as we all know) and Princess & Trey as a pair move more frequently than any of our previous pairs.  Other pairs, like Holly & Zeus (or Holly & Screech and Mufasa & Phoebe) have only ever used the nestbox in Brandon.  Now whether that is because there are no other suitable sites or preference, is up for debate.  At the Radisson, it appears to be preference on the part of our pairs.  As for Mariah, depends on her preferences.  If she prefers nestboxes, she'll probably go to another nestbox in the territory.  If she has/does nest without a box, she may try for awhile to get to where she wants to be.  (I'll check the links tomorrow during the day and give you a better answer then).  As for the stress, it will be stressful, annoying/frustrating (only words I can use on this PG-13 site) stress than perhaps the stress of a serious territorial dispute.  On the upside, she will be driven (by hormones) to find a spot to nest which might be all it takes to get her into a new nestbox.  Her mate will also have the same hormonal drive.  If he's a new male, that might help, he won't be "attached" to the old nestsite and more willing to look elsewhere.  And yes, both the birds are involved in the nestsite location decision.

One thing I will look for is whether or not they have left the old nestbox in place ... if they have (keep in mind its midnight right now and I haven't yet seen or read what's up) that may not have been their best move.  It would also be interesting to see when the put the new nestboxes out ... we put up a new nestbox in West Winnipeg last year and the pair that hung out on the building on an almost daily basis, didn't show any interest in the box until September/October (and no, the box isn't hard for them to find  :D).  If they knew they were going to do work a year or more in advance, I would be interested in knowing if they put the boxes out at that time to get the pair familiar with their presence.  Anywho, will check it out tomorrow in daylight and add anything I think is pertinent ...

Answer your question a bit Carly?

Offline Alison

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 2,402
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2009, 10:31 »
The photos in the slideshow are beautiful, and absolutely heartbreaking. I had no problem accessing the link.

Since Kodak has not started work on the Tower, it would be a really good gesture to remove the netting and allow Mariah to return to the place where she raised her babies for eleven years in a row. The Terminal Tower in Cleveland has been undergoing restorations for about three years now; Buckeye and SW have adapted to all the disturbances, and have successfully continued to raise their babies there. (SW laid her third egg this morning.)

Mariah and Kaver are the first falcons I ever watched, and they are very special to me. I still hope Kaver will return, but in the back of my mind I think about the tiercel they found last fall. I know they decided it wasn't Kaver, but I wonder. Tybropa-Cree is a very handsome tiercel, but there is only one Kaver.

Offline carly

  • Phanatic
  • Old Bird
  • ***
  • Posts: 4,399
Re: Rochester - 2009 / Archer & Beauty
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2009, 07:26 »
Heartbreaking pictures on the web this morning of Mariah trying so hard to get to her old nestbox  :'( :'(  She's hovering in the front of the netting, lands on it several times and is trying to figure out how to get past it to get to her ledge.  Poor girl, she seems determined and confused.

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLanding.action?c=tq6stye.8b4hxlp2&x=0&y=2xhkln&localeid=en_US

Tracy, Do you think she would eventually give up and go to one of the new nest boxes or her old box or will this stress jeapardize her egg production/laying?  Also, since the Tiercel is usually the one who choses the box - will he view her wanting to be at Kodak with no access to a box as a rejection of himself?  Or will he follow where she leads?